Talk:Palestine (region)

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Palestine (region) has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

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Date	Process	Result
March 13, 2015	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on March 23, 2015.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the first clear use of the name "Palestine" was in the 5th century B.C. by Ancient Greek historian Herodotus?

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Haviv Rettig Gur (16 May 2010). "Israeli-Palestinian Conflict Rages on Wikipedia". The Jerusalem Post.

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"Israel and Palestine" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Israel and Palestine has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 3 § Israel and Palestine until a consensus is reached. — Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 07:02, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Misleading or incomprehensive context in the opening paragraph

From the current version of the page: "In the Hellenistic period, these names were carried over into Greek, appearing in the Histories of Herodotus in 5th century BCE as Palaistine. The Roman Empire conquered the region and in 6 CE established the province known as Judaea" It would seem, reading this, that Judaea is a name made up by some Roman conqueror, while it's more likely the Romans conquered the region from locals who already refered to their homeland as Judea. Unless we are strictly European centered, in which case only what made it in European maps and history is what counts? Gezellig~hewiki (talk) 10:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the point that is trying to be made is that the Romans called their province "Judaea", not where the name came from. Maybe say "... established the province they called Judaea"? Peter coxhead (talk) 14:49, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Help needed adding Map that better illuminates terminology of regions under discussion

This map should replace the satellite image in the modern boundaries section. It is taken from a different page and has explanatory information not in the other maps: it shows the names used elsewhere in context along with the terrain and political regions.

The ones showing the evolutions of the border lack labels, and would be worse for them as they show the change over time. The one showing the population as a dot map is great but needs this map to show how the reality of where people live corresponds to the political debate.

I tried to replace the satellite image from the modern boundaries section but could not get the formatting to work. I would appreciate someone finding a good spot on the page or advising how to get the text flow to work. Mrflip (talk) 14:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Greater Palestine" redirect

Greater Palestine redirects here, but where is the merged content? It's not at Jordan–Palestine relations, either, where the AfD decision originally said to merge the content to.

Mergers that factually end up being deletions, against the explicit decision at AfD, because nothing ever ends up being merged at all (the merge target is never even changed in response to the decision), are a loathsome pattern in Wikipedia. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 11:22, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Map

The 1750 map did not gain consensus per the various comments above, so I have added back the original svg map.

I understand that the svg map is preferred as it illustrates various periods, but could be simplified in certain areas and the color differential made clearer. Perhaps others could comment here, and once we have a clear set of changes agreed, we can improve the map further. Onceinawhile (talk) 09:38, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will repeat my proposal here then to remove the dashed green lines and keep everything else as is. This way we will have three definitions:

1- ancient Palestine (Palestina I + II in green)

2- modern Palestine (Mandatory Palestine in red)

3- official Palestine (1967 borders in blue). Makeandtoss (talk) 11:05, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Make&toss. Zero^talk 14:43, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Makeandtoss and Zero0000: How about this? Onceinawhile (talk) 15:55, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perfect, an improvement despite the small risk of OR for the green line. Makeandtoss (talk) 16:12, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's good. The fine blue line could be made more prominent but it isn't necessary. Zero^talk 01:19, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just realized I have been confusing two things together; the Roman province of Syria Palestina and the Byzantine provinces of Palestina I and II. I thought they were the same thing. Since they are different, wouldn't it make sense just to have Roman province of Syria Palestina, as this would eliminate the OR risk when combing the Byzantine provinces I and II? Also how sure are we of the eastern borders of Syria Palestina, was it really the Jordan River? Makeandtoss (talk) 08:10, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is a good question and the heart of the challenge. Looking at the detail within Timeline of the name Palestine, you can see that Wikipedia's suggestion that the Roman province was formally called "Syria Palestina" - as opposed to just "Palestina" - has no primary evidence, as both names were in use at the time. I suspect the SP name in scholarly works came originally from the existence of the name on this Louvre diploma (published at the end of the 19th century).

Equally, the borders moved around over time, and there are no fixed lines. The best we can do is identify the best scholarly sources with these borders in them across all the available periods. Onceinawhile (talk) 14:10, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We can go with the borders used at the Syria Palaestina's article, i.e. the Jordan River. Updating the green borders to these ones should be the last improvement possible and the best outcome of this lengthy discussion. Makeandtoss (talk) 20:39, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 October 2024

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Could you please just modify “The holy land of israel” and you make it seem like israel is a country but not Palestine.🇵🇸 Sam9472 (talk) 01:59, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Kline • talk • contribs 03:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]