Talk:Law and Justice

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This article was nominated for merging with United Right (Poland) on 17 June 2020. The result of the discussion was oppose.

Far right

Can someone explain to me why, with so many academic sources,^[1] the article does not call the party far-right? What are you waiting for to do it? Hidolo (talk) 00:03, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Simple. Because PiS is not a far right party. We have a policy on due and undue weight. — kashmīrī ^TALK 13:02, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What? According to that same Wikipedia policy that you cite, it says that if there is a majority that affirms this, it should be added to the article. Also, according to whom PIS is not a far-right party? According to you? Does there have any valid argument for throwing away all the academic sources that determine that the party is far right? You are definitely implying that what you want to do is an arbitrary conception of reality. It doesn't seem like a good action to me coming from a user who has been in Wikipedia for more than 18 years. It's a delirium. 2800:2503:101:3BD8:A600:4969:B37B:F54A (talk) 22:00, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's my comment. Hidolo (talk) 22:02, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not enough to quote academic sources, and primary ones on top of that. The quoted sources, ideally secondary, must reflect scholarly consensus, which certainly is not on the far-right label.

For now, the tertiary source Britannica terms PiS as "centre-right" [1]. — kashmīrī ^TALK 13:00, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. That is the only one current source that described the party as centre-right. So I think it is a minority opinion. Hidolo (talk) 22:31, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That source is talking about the party in 2007 - that does not necessarily have bearing on what the party is like today. Center-right is an uncommon and unfitting label. JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 02:45, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here are a great variety of sources which call this party far-right:

https://www.american.edu/sis/news/20231017-four-questions-about-poland-s-election-results.cfm

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/31/1222337095/in-a-year-of-gains-for-the-far-right-in-europe-poland-became-the-outlier

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/magazine/the-party-that-wants-to-make-poland-great-again.html

https://www.dw.com/en/polish-media-conflict-pits-government-against-far-right/a-67884162

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/19/1230673951/poland-new-government-polish-news-media

I am honestly somewhat surprised; usually it is the left on this website which has biased calls on ideology and then mobs the dissenters. JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 02:49, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Law and Justice is a right-wing party with centre-right and far-right elements and factions. Therefore, it's only logical to put right-wing and maybe add factions. Odideum (talk) 20:59, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any source? Hidolo (talk) 22:05, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also consider that being a populist party their position on political spectrum may change as those parties tend to radicalise themselves more and more. YBSOne (talk) 12:53, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this. This party is commonly described as such.

(and it's also kind of corrupt, but that's besides the point) JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 02:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^
- Forchtner, Bernhard (2019-09-10). The Far Right and the Environment: Politics, Discourse and Communication. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-351-10402-9.
- Vieten, Ulrike M.; Poynting, Scott (2022-09-26). Normalization of the Global Far Right: Pandemic Disruption?. Emerald Group Publishing. ISBN 978-1-83909-956-4.
- Dorling, Danny (2019-01-15). Rule Britannia: Brexit and the End of Empire. Biteback Publishing. ISBN 978-1-78590-456-1.
- Alexander, Jeffrey C.; Kivisto, Peter; Sciortino, Giuseppe (2020-12-03). Populism in the Civil Sphere. John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 978-1-5095-4475-2.
- Ayoub, Phillip M.; Stoeckl, Kristina (2024-06-18). The Global Fight Against LGBTI Rights: How Transnational Conservative Networks Target Sexual and Gender Minorities. NYU Press. ISBN 978-1-4798-2481-6.
- "Analysis | Poland's in crisis again. Here's what you should know about the far right's latest power-grab". Washington Post. 2021-12-07. ISSN 0190-8286. Retrieved 2024-05-23.

Add "social conservatism" to ideology.

PiS is a social conservative party, outlined by their anti LGBTQIA+ stance. Is this enough to warrant adding it to the ideology? 121.45.107.215 (talk) 01:36, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] 
Forchtner, Bernhard (2019-09-10). The Far Right and the Environment: Politics, Discourse and Communication. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-351-10402-9.
Vieten, Ulrike M.; Poynting, Scott (2022-09-26). Normalization of the Global Far Right: Pandemic Disruption?. Emerald Group Publishing. ISBN 978-1-83909-956-4.
Dorling, Danny (2019-01-15). Rule Britannia: Brexit and the End of Empire. Biteback Publishing. ISBN 978-1-78590-456-1.
Alexander, Jeffrey C.; Kivisto, Peter; Sciortino, Giuseppe (2020-12-03). Populism in the Civil Sphere. John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 978-1-5095-4475-2.
Ayoub, Phillip M.; Stoeckl, Kristina (2024-06-18). The Global Fight Against LGBTI Rights: How Transnational Conservative Networks Target Sexual and Gender Minorities. NYU Press. ISBN 978-1-4798-2481-6.
"Analysis | Poland's in crisis again. Here's what you should know about the far right's latest power-grab". Washington Post. 2021-12-07. ISSN 0190-8286. Retrieved 2024-05-23.

[2] Forchtner, Bernhard (2019-09-10). The Far Right and the Environment: Politics, Discourse and Communication. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-351-10402-9.

[3] Vieten, Ulrike M.; Poynting, Scott (2022-09-26). Normalization of the Global Far Right: Pandemic Disruption?. Emerald Group Publishing. ISBN 978-1-83909-956-4.

[4] Dorling, Danny (2019-01-15). Rule Britannia: Brexit and the End of Empire. Biteback Publishing. ISBN 978-1-78590-456-1.

[5] Alexander, Jeffrey C.; Kivisto, Peter; Sciortino, Giuseppe (2020-12-03). Populism in the Civil Sphere. John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 978-1-5095-4475-2.

[6] Ayoub, Phillip M.; Stoeckl, Kristina (2024-06-18). The Global Fight Against LGBTI Rights: How Transnational Conservative Networks Target Sexual and Gender Minorities. NYU Press. ISBN 978-1-4798-2481-6.

[7] "Analysis | Poland's in crisis again. Here's what you should know about the far right's latest power-grab". Washington Post. 2021-12-07. ISSN 0190-8286. Retrieved 2024-05-23.

[1]